Upvotes required for advancement in ranking titles is completely unnecessary.


  • Upvotes required for advancement in ranking titles is completely unnecessary.

    I cannot exaggerate this enough. People tend to think marking as an answer is enough, but that's not the case. What's the point of having it? Almost nobody knows that upvotes are required for progression in rankings, therefore nobody knows the importance of giving reputation to someone. I'm living proof of that, I have 600 reputation, and according to incapaz, 125 reputation is required for Professor. I have five times that amount of reputation, but since I don't have enough upvotes, no professor rank. The only factors that should determine rank are reputation, questions marked as answered, and (maybe) questioned asked.

    Upvotes are very uncommon, since people tend to just click "Mark as answer," copy the code, and then go on with their lives. But little do they know, upvotes are very necessary.

    I have three proposals.

    Remove upvotes needed for ranking, Remove upvotes needed for ranking, or upvote when an answer is chosen.

    Or, you can also remove updates needed for ranking. That also works too. The only way I see we should keep upvotes for ranking is if ScriptingHelpers were Reddit, as karma gets thrown around like it's a dodgeball. No other reason should upvotes be mandatory to progress.


  • @Fifkee Imagine having -17 upvotes received, with 5869430854793 reputation.

    It doesn't seem right to be whatever rank requires 5869430854793 reputation, when you have -17 upvotes received.


  • @sjr04Alt It also doesn't seem right to have almost all the requirements of the rank that requires 5869430854793 reputation, but only have 4 upvotes recieved because nobody upvotes your answers, even if they were all was correct, and even if they had so much information packed into them that it's basically a wiki article.


  • @Fifkee Upvotes are earned, it's not "hey the OP accepted my answer now give me upvotes and reps".

    Another thing that can be contributing to lack of upvotes is whose question you're answering.

    The minimum reputation required to upvote is 25 reputation. You are probably answering questions from people who have less reputation than that.


  • @sjr04Alt I'm about to blow your mind.

    Upvote is earned, indeed, but I know for a fact that people tend not to go to an already-answered question. That means that your answer is typically seen by two people: The one that asked the question, and others that are having the issue.

    I don't necessarily have a reason for the second person, but it's definitely common. I am definitely one of them as I completely forget to upvote a question that helps.

    The one that asked the questions

    This one is a simple answer, really. The guy that asked the question has the opportunity to upvote your question. Doesn't mean they will. Low chance that they will in the first place, because as you said, and as I am forming your statement into my own words, most people that ask questions have lower amount of reputation.

    Why should such a highly controlled factor inside of ScriptingHelpers (unlike rep, seriously. you can give rep right off the bat!) be so important? Viable questions asked/answered aren't that common to come across anyway, if I'm allowed to represent my opinion. Something that's so scarce shouldn't play such a major role in something like this.

    Edit: Now that I think about it.. what are you even talking about?

    My point is not that "hey the OP accepted my answer now give me upvote and reputation." If I solve their question with a full response, how do I not earn an upvote? Plus, I'm saying that I should get an automatic upvote from the asker because I answered their question. Not rep from everyone in the SH community simply because I answered the OP's question.

    Until now, I've never seen a system that utilizes upvotes for something "major" other than rep. Upvotes are supposed to be what helps you give rep. And it already plays into that role--it gives 5 rep to the person you upvote. Cool and good, but really? You need other people's opinion of you, their willingness to give you their upvotes, and their acknowledgement of the importance of upvotes in order to progress somewhere? That's absolutely bizarre! Why should a rank be given by the community, furthermore, a community that consists of people learning to script, but is slightly plagued by people who copy the code and go on with their fruitless day? Ranks should be determined by the system or the higher-ups, with little interaction from the users.

    The little interaction from the users should be the "Mark as Answer" button.
    The rank determined by the system should only be reputation-based.

    But instead, we have:

    The "little" interaction from the users are the "Mark as Answer" button and the "upvote" button, in which upvotes are actually more important than rep (since they are much more scarce), as they can hold you back from achieving the role you wish to get if you're even one upvote short.

    The rank determined by the system is reputation and upvote-based, which the upvotes are based upon the user.

    This sounds like I made two of the same arguments, but the in correlation/reference to my previous statements, I'm saying that the player should only have one form of interaction with the ranking system: clicking the Mark as Answer button.

    Clicking the upvote button is something of which people rarely do due to their little reputation or neglect of the upvote button.

    >init inevitable "people's opinion is very important in the real world so eat my shorts" quote

    I shall await your next point in the morning.


  • @Fifkee

    Ranks should be determined by the system or the higher-ups, with little interaction from the users.

    hohhhh yes


    Ranks don't mean much anyways, but only to a very tiny extent, they show how good/experienced you are. Ranks should be harder and harder to get each time. The site is also heavily inspired by stack overflow, I'm a member of that community myself, the upvotes give 5 rep, accepted answers give 15 rep, accepting an answer gives you 2 rep, downvotes deduct 2 reputation, and 1 for the person giving it, and the list keeps going.

    You seem to just be upvote hungry. The community with >= 25 reputation decides if they want to upvote you as well. If the community likes your answers enough to upvote it they'll upvote it. Or not. Plus remember the majority is like 10-13 year olds. They don't know much.

    Also now that I've in depth read the post, it's just you babbling about a personal experience with this system.

    The tactic of using personal experiences as an attempted form of validation is known as the anecdotal fallacy. Simply because you have a bad experience, doesn't mean everyone else will too.

    This post appeals to emotion as well. You're attempting to make us feel bad for you.

    So I still don't see why upvotes shouldn't be a requirement!


  • @sjr04Alt You're using "fallacies" as an excuse to get away from my argument. Stop it. This isn't anything that has to do with personal experience. You can go to a user a high amount of rep and there's a very high chance they'll still be Educator, Professor at best. Either make an argument that's valid, or don't make an arugment at all.

    In what way am I making other people feel bad for myself? Using myself as valid evidence on this topic is much more than enough evidence. Furthermore, I will provide three examples of this occurance. This was found by going onto questions answered and comments.

    First one of course, being me.

    me

    This one is Mr. Unlucky
    educator unlucky

    Last one is erm.. this guy.

    educator man

    Do you see how bizarre this is? sorry, didn't get the upvotes recieved for unlucky


  • @Fifkee I've seen mr unlucky' answers and q&a history before it was hidden. He just gets lots of downvotes.

    Whenallthepigsfly, I don't see him answering often. Inactivity doesn't prove much :\

    You rarely see someone at 125-400 reputation with a professor rank.

    Did you forget - there's a minimum answers given requirement too, as well as a minimum accepted answers requirement? You need minimum 35 answers given, and 3 accepted answers to get the professor rank, and of course the 20 upvotes. Look at how many answers whenallthepigsfly has given.

    Btw Halmuni has over 125 reputation and 27 upvotes. No professor rank. Why?

    And maybe if your argument wasn't full of fallacies I wouldn't call you out for committing them, literally your post is incomprehensible, and feels like a circular argument.

    The problem is your discussion is circular, which is a reasoning fallacy – you say "I don’t see why", with the proof being "I don't see why".

    You could keep saying the same thing no matter what arguments are brought to the table. It’s not constructive discussion.


  • @sjr04Alt What are you talking about? Stop strawmanning. You're attempting to include activity in this argument, when activity plays no role into the discussion or ranking play. He's also recently answered a question. Furthermore, this argument is not about "fallacies" either. I never mentioned that in this thread at all.

    I'm still awaiting your point. This isn't about how I construct my arguments, this is a matter of how bizarre the ranking system is. Plus, You've yet to disprove my point on how upvotes are far too scarce to be used for a whole ranking system--as you've only mentioned that ranks don't mean much.

    I am not upvote hungry, and that itself is an ad-hominem fallacy. You are attempting to attack my character by calling me "upvote hungry." I am not upvote hungry in the slightest. I sincerely do not care about upvotes other than the fact that they're way too rare--again--to be used as a fair way in a ranking system.

    Oh, by the way. Just because the majority are 10-13 year-olds doesn't mean that they can't do something as simple as clicking the upvote button. I will recite my preivous point, as people tend not to go on answered questions to upvote unless they have the same issue as the asker, or they're the one asking the questions. This is proven time and time again with very, very in-depth answers that have 0 upvotes. Again, this is caused by most people not visiting already-answered questions in search of unanswered questions to earn reputation. Age has nothing to do with this argument at all.

    Please, stop beating around the bush by being petty and calling out "fallacies." Attack the main argument.


  • @Fifkee

    [1.] Stop strawmanning. You're attempting to include activity in this argument, when activity plays no role into the discussion or ranking play. [2.] He's also recently answered a question. [3.] Furthermore, this argument is not about "fallacies" either. I never mentioned that in this thread at all.

    1. Not a strawman argument, I brought up activity because it was relevant to the main point which itself is relevant to this entire discussion.

    2. Recently answered a question? Singular?

    3. I never said this was about fallacies, and bringing them up isn't fallacious.

    I am not upvote hungry, and that itself is an ad-hominem fallacy. You are attempting to attack my character by calling me "upvote hungry." I am not upvote hungry in the slightest.

    .

    You seem to just be upvote hungry.

    Oh, sorry, I was not aware saying you seemed to be upvote hungry was the same as saying you are! Your majesty, clearly I am not qualified to talk to you as I do not possess the social standing or intellectual capacity to even comprehend what you are saying!

    Please accept my sincerest apologies.

    Jokes aside, you seem to be misrepresenting my claims so they seem fallacious.

    Also, when finding evidence to support a claim, don't cherry pick. Do consider the evidence that may contradict your claims, you left out the portion where I mention there is an answers given minimum requirement, as well as an answers accepted minimum requirement, which is a common reason as to why people don't promote to the next rank.

    Oh, by the way. [1.] Just because the majority are 10-13 year-olds doesn't mean that they can't do something as simple as clicking the upvote button. I will recite my preivous point, as people tend not to go on answered questions to upvote unless they have the same issue as the asker, or they're the one asking the questions. [2.] This is proven time and time again with very, very in-depth answers that have 0 upvotes. [3.] Again, this is caused by most people not visiting already-answered questions in search of unanswered questions to earn reputation. Age has nothing to do with this argument at all

    1. They're not required to upvote your answer if they don't want to.

    2. In depth answers do deserve upvotes, but sometimes they just don't get upvotes. There's not much you can do if you don't. Just answer another question. From what I've seen, answers more about Lua and not roblox get tons of upvotes. ScriptGuider and BlueTaslem's (just to name a few) answers are an example of what get tons of upvotes.

    3. That's just how it is with kids. They're not as dedicated to the site as we are.


  • @sjr04Alt

    Whoops, sorry! I didn't know that thinking someone was a trait doesn't make it an insult! Holy cow, I never would've thought! That's crazy! No. Using "seem" to sweeten the term doesn't make it any less of an insult. There's your little tip.

    Think of it like this. If you're asking someone the question "are you stupid?", it doesn't necessarily sweeten the sentence simply because you're asking it in the form of a question. You're questioning their smartness, which alone, is an insult, but saying it out loud is even more of an insult.

    Another example is: "You seem to not be the sharpest tool in the shed."
    In this way, which is in the same fashion compared to how you worded your sentence, your impression of me is that I am stupid, which again--is insulting. Simply replacing "not be the sharpest tool in the shed" with "just be upvote hungry" still means your impression of me is someone who is upvote-hungry, which I take offensively. Your wording still is in an insult, no matter how you word it. Wording is important.

    I'm not cherry picking, either! I only used the information that was given to me via restricted selection of the first one to six pages. The 5th page only had answers from DanzLua, which he is about 1k rep in, and has the scholar rank with about 78 upvotes. He answered about six questions, and another person (whose name has left my head, started with a P) had around 700-ish rep and a role higher than professor. The three I found were in the first 5 pages with rep amounts greater than 200 with educator roles. Everyone else within my limited selection had around 15 to 75 reputation with the Asker/Academic role, with upvotes ranging from 1 to 5-ish.

    Now that we got that out of the way, back to the argument.

    They're not required to upvote your answer if they don't want to.

    That still is not any of my points. I will recite my point.. again. My point on the upvoting is that people on an already-answered question are typically TWO types of people: the asker, and people that have the same issues. Both sides tend not to upvote any question, as the people who have the same issue read the thread, and a lot of the time--they don't even have an account to upvote with, or their reputation levels are far too low to upvote an answer/question. The asker, also can be someone that has low amounts of reputation, therefore preventing them from upvoting a question--however, this is not likely.

    People tend to skip questions that have already been answered in search for reputation. And don't even lie, there's a 99% chance you've done it at least once in your SH lifetime, too. I wont lie, either! I have, too!

    In depth answers do deserve upvotes, but sometimes they just don't get upvotes. There's not much you can do if you don't. Just answer another question. From what I've seen, answers more about Lua and not roblox get tons of upvotes. ScriptGuider and BlueTaslem's (just to name a few) answers are an example of what get tons of upvotes.

    1. Read my point above. Also, didn't my Devil Beater recreation answer deserve tons of upvotes? It went into crazy depth about how filtering enabled should be executed. Guess that's just another example of "people don't upvote answers if they don't want to, and TOTALLY not because they don't fully acknowlege the purpose of a grey upvote button!"

    That's just how it is with kids. They're not as dedicated to the site as we are.

    1. Dude, I've been on ScriptingHelpers ever since I was twelve. I'm fourteen as of now. I've been on the site almost daily on my free time (since I have a lot of free time.) I will say this again. Age has no correlation to this argument when it comes to simply pressing an arrow that points upwards. Younger people most definitely are not so dumb to the point where they can't even click an arrow.

  • @Fifkee I had the slightest hope that you were being sarcastic over calling people dumb because they don't upvote you, sad to see you weren't.

    I don't know if I can go on any longer, I bring new arguments to the table, and all you do is respond with the same thing: the scarcity of upvotes. "Why don't people upvote me?" is subjective as there are millions of reasons as to why you're not upvoted, and there always isn't a specific reason. Maybe they didn't upvote you because your answer contained a vowel, or because it's in all lowercase, you never know!


  • @sjr04Alt I assume you're referring to the Younger people most definitely are so dumb to the point where they can't even click an arrow. quote. I made a typo that forgot the word "not" in it, and I quickly edited it. I apologize for that hiccup.

    You're not bringing any new arguments to the table.. The only arguments you've brought in are related to activity, age, cherry-picking, and fallacies--all of which have no correlation to the argument at hand.

    I'm not saying that they are required to upvote the post, either. I'm saying that they don't acknowledge the upvote button, only the big blue button that says "Mark as Answer." It's also quite an autonomous process of clicking the blue button and moving on with your day.


  • but im young :(


  • @Fifkee

    I assume you're referring to the Younger people most definitely are so dumb to the point where they can't even click an arrow. quote. I made a typo that forgot the word "not" in it, and I quickly edited it. I apologize for that hiccup.

    Either you're moving the goalposts or you truly made a mistake. I'm gonna go with the latter.

    You're not bringing any new arguments to the table.. The only arguments you've brought in are related to activity, age, cherry-picking, and fallacies--[...]

    Activity, age, or just dedication to the site or anything of that sort can be factors, not that they always are. Fallacy call outs are just part of this discussion lol


  • @greatneil80 in the mind, we all are, pal. :pensive:


  • No actually in my mind I am about 70 years old.


  • @sjr04Alt That's a good point, can't really say anything except that fallacy call outs shouldn't be used as an argument in any debate. Plus, active people still typically don't go to already-answered questions normally. :upside_down:

    Yes, it was a mistake. I'm a rather young person, why would I insult myself as an argument?

    @greatneil80 subtract 58, we all are 12 in the brain


  • you see,
    upvotes and answering questions take part in scripting helpers.

    1. upvotes help show which questions are good
    2. answers are answers for questions
    3. we have mods to determine if there is rep manipulating so I don't even understand the point of this discussion xd

    Evaera stole 400 rep from me because someone upvoted me like 400 times, mods are there to see what happens...
    giving people 2 rep per question answered is good because, it shows how dedicated one is to building their game..

    What I do think would help scripting helpers is if, when someone is about ti finish their title, multiple results will pop up showing all the questions with the same title, like what google does when you search something up. That way, it will redirect the person to that question.


  • @greatneil80 what? i'm not saying that at all.. i'm all for upvotes, but i'm not for them being a necessary requirement for ranks because it's extremely hard to get upvotes due to various factors.

    a rep-based ranking system would be great because upvotes are still a factor, upvotes still give reputation, so they would still have a purpose in a reputation-based ranking system, but it wouldn't be mandatory like the system we have now. upvotes would be like a little boost.

    anyways, what i wish for won't happen (said by megagamer), since eryn doesn't want to risk breaking the site any further. :cry:

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